Raw Energy Hotline - Sept 2004 (Part 6)

RAW ENERGY HOTLINE
SEPTEMBER, 2004
(Continued from Part 5)
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 7

Part 6 - FEEDBACK from Readers

September 12, 2004

Dear Rhio,

Your email this morning was an interesting read, but there are so many variables to this issue, that I thought I would bring them up, not to play "devil's advocate", but to clarify what goes on in the Living Foods/Raw Foods community at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

First, what I find somewhat disheartening, though I think an honest appraisal of the community is that we all eat differently. Not everyone drinks wheatgrass, or eats sprouts, or feels chlorophyll foods are the "way to go". I know, and have heard many people "dis" Dr. Ann, and don't/won't follow her program, and then they complain they don't really feel at optimum health. People think that reinventing the wheel, and coming up with their own scenario is so much better. But those of us old timers who studied with Dr. Ann and who drink, and eat accordingly are not complaining about VB12 deficiency. Eat sprouts and veggie kraut, drink wheatgrass and Rejuvelac, put chlorophyll at the head of the list, and there are no problems. I think it really is simple. Those who are complaining about the program aren't doing the program. When Dr. Ann developed the Living Foods Lifestyle, she worked through all of the changes she made to it over the years. She lived those changes with everyone who came through her doors. Hundreds of people told her what was working, and she surmised that chlorophyll, in the form of a whole blended food (Energy Soup), was the perfect way to feast on complete nutrition. I'm into the Living Foods Lifestyle for my health and it works, and it works well when you are positive about the changes that occur with the program.

Those who follow a Natural Hygiene program seem to have more problems with food than Living Fooders. Maybe because of not sprouting, or drinking wheatgrass, or eating seaweed, or juicing.

The bottom line: for 100 people who call themselves Raw Fooders, those 100 all eat differently, and with different results, and for someone to make a broad statement about it not working, should clarify what they are doing with their diet.

Thanks again for passing on the info in the community. I appreciate your energy and the resources you bring to the discussion. And thank you for allowing me to "vent".

I will always defend Dr. Ann. She saved my life.

in peace

Robin

September 13, 2004

Hello,

We all take the food thing a little bit too serious.

Raw food is healing us and it is very good for us. The human body works optimally on a mostly/or all raw food diet.

The whole cooked food/raw food thing, organic raw dairy or not, should be regarded a little more relaxed but in a responsible way. Knowing a good doctor who is into raw foods and has a balanced way of thinking is very important.

I studied with Germany's most renowned Doctor: Dr. Bruker from the Health Institute in Lahnstein/Germany. He was personally more than 90% raw for most of his life (he died at age 92 in 2001, with all of his original teeth and he died naturally, no disease whatsoever.) This health insitute produced over 2200 health practitioners, advocating a mostly raw diet but saying that eating whole cooked foods is still o.k. and if someone wants to eat dairy that's fine too. Vegetarianism is the key, being vegan Dr. Bruker says is o.k. too.

Basically what is important is that people are not pushed/pressured into a certain way of eating. Because some people are lecturing so much about it and books are written so many etc., we want to be like them, because of the benefits they talk about.

I have talked to many people who are into raw foods, since I am running a raw food business. I have talked to people who are doing well/good on being 100% raw, I have talked to people who are on a 100% raw diet, but they "seemed" miserable (not sick) to me in our conversation.

One "raw mother" bought an organic cow for their two small boys and healed her boys by giving them raw dairy. Another woman from New Jersey drinks regularly raw goats milk, so do others. Other people cannot have dairy at all because their "protein metabolism" is so "damaged" by eating constantly processed foods (white flour, white sugar products) that they can't eat any animal protein anymore.

Most raw food people are also spiritually inclined and practice some kind of yoga or meditation. or mantra and other things. Most raw foods speakers I know of talked about spiritual practices etc.

India is the motherland of truth and yoga and meditation, and the saints and avatars and gurus have always eaten some form of dairy or other non-meat animal products. Dairy is mentioned in their scriptures (namely the Bhagavadgita). If those saints and gurus are the messengers of truth, would they have told and practiced an untruth, by eating dairy, butter etc?

Your comments are welcome.

PS: People who are severely ill can/should eat 100% for a period of time (only with a medical doctor) until the disease is "gone", but can choose to add cooked food or dairy back into their diet. However being mostly raw is the key to continued health.

Ibrahim

September 12, 2004

The opposite of dis ease, is ease...
You see what you want to see, and what is inside your head and how you feel, is what manifests in your world. So it's mental and emotional turbulence not nutritional deficiencies that manifests as self sabotage. A lot of times people look outside themselves to solve problems when, the only way you can solve anything is to look inside. But self sabotage is also what makes you eat things that in your heart of heart you know makes you sick. Well that and a constant barrage of greedy brainwashing from all sectors of society.

That said, I came to raw food because I had cancer. I was supposed to go to the hospital for 5 weeks of chemo and radiation, but after a few days of treatment realized that it was very very wrong. I found a new doctor; she had an MD from the Philippines (that she didn't renew here), a PhD in TCM, and other assorted degrees and certificates in nutrition and natural medicine and she had come from a tradition of female shamanic healers. Her and her husband have a health store in New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada and the focus of their attention for the last 12 years has been cancer. They both have diverse backgrounds and are very open minded, and the only criteria that they looked for in their research was positive results. They escaped the brainwashing of our modern medical profession (see www.worldwithoutcancer.com) and when I came to them the first part of my treatment was to become 100% raw to create a completely alkaline environment in which cancer cannot survive,
immediately, with no transition, and stay that way for 6 months. The rest of the treatment involved various types of cleansing and detoxing, oral chelation etc. But the main part was mental with lots of meditation (which also isalkaline producing). Getting cancer was like tying a big knot in part of my body and curing it was like figuring out how the knot got there and slowly untying it. It was a big ball of blocked energy and repressed issues.

Converting to raw made everything work better and made me feel and look better than I ever have. I experiment with introducing different substances into my squeaky clean system occasionally, refined sugar just makes me sick as does most forms of alcohol (except a bit of sake, it's they only alkaline alcohol), all dairy immediately makes me look like I'm pregnant and gives me cramps and gas, spicy things and a lot of cooked things now give me indigestion, most non organic fruit burns my tongue and makes my lips tingle and swell... A bit of protein now and then is fine, lightly cooked veggies go down okay. I think back in the day when our bodies were evolving into out present form, we developed harmoniously with our environment and what was readily available to eat, which was fruits, nuts, seeds and leafy greens. That's why they are the most efficient forms of getting all the building blocks we need and lets our body maintain itself perfectly and deal with any disease. This works best when we aren't polluting it with tons of toxins internally and externally, which is also why I had to leave the city to get better.

Love your website and the newsletter...

thanks Mary

September 12, 2004

Well done Rhio.

RE: Naz: "Gabriel Cousens, a holistic M.D., has become very concerned about the B-12 issue and is now publishing the results of new research. He says that it's been demonstrated that 80% of vegans become seriously B-12 deficient. He then lists the problems that can be related to B-12 deficiency, and it's an incredible list of problems."

Rhio and Frederick,

The above comment is miss-leading. Gabriel said at the last Raw event in Portland that E3live is "full of human active b12 and is everything they say it is". www.breathing.com/e3live.htm

mike white
Please send this comment and URL to your respective email lists.
mw@breathing.com

September 15, 2004

Rhio,

Naz is a great "Devil's Advocate" on the raw food diet. He expresses many very important concerns so many uninformed people (6 billion and counting) have on eating a 100% raw, vegan life food diet. The human race is just now barely re-discovering how to eat the natural diet it evolved from before fire could be created at will.

Imagine a world where the entire human race eats only raw, vegan life food. How wonderful would that be!

Your website is outstanding and provides so much benefit to others.
Thank you! Best Regards,

Jose

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:35 AM
From: George Love
To: karen fiero
Subject: Re: Raw Energy Hotline - September 2004 (Part 2)

Dear Jinjee and Rhio,

Thanks for your information about the interview and your commentary. I am also a vegetarian for thirty years but only vegan for four years and raw for only one year. I have been involved in the natural food and healing movement for twenty five of those thirty years.

My comments are limited to premature death.

The scientific principle would not make assumptions based upon a few deaths. There are many causes of death. Heart disease, hypertension and stroke are the top. Lung cancer, colon cancer, breast and prostate are second. Diabetic complications are number three. Immuno-deficiency and infections rank fourth. Not even considered are those who are tired of living. Those who are not emotionally supported. Those who are chronically depressed. Those taking properly prescribed pharmaceutical drugs. Those who don't get enough sleep, get enough water and did not choose to have joy in their life.

I used to be a fanatic about diet. But there are many more considerations about living than food. People who choose to deny themselves pleasure are surely not living. All things in moderation. Everyone is free to make their own life choices. Mostly all of the vegetarians and vegans I meet are sick. Every once in a while I will see someone with high energy like Karen Fiero. Is it the diet that makes them sick? Or is it the choices that they have made about living? It is really hard to die of starvation. The starving Ethiopians lived approximately seventy days before dying. The jailed Irish revolutionaries refused food for forty days before dying.

It is more likely that the vegans were dehydrated than starved.

There are many records of people 50-100 pounds overweight who lived to be 75 years. And there are many records of seemingly fit people who die prematurely. Living and dying is a choice. And so is diet. It is more likely that emotional stress was the culprit in premature death than diet.

Supplements are necessary only if the nutrients are not in the soil. Eating sea vegetable and taking herbal medicine based on Traditional Chinese medicine will solve most nutritional imbalances. However sometimes my Chinese Medicine teachers have prescribed pork kidney or live carp to balance an issue. The Chinese eat everything. Small birds, shark meat, snakes, frogs, worms, insects. Comparatively speaking according to the China Project a plant based diet is the optimum healthy way to eat.

http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/reports/campbell_china1.html

Much love and respect to you and your work.

G.X. Love, Doctor of Oriental Medicine,
Licensed Acupuncture Physician
Sifu Zhen Wu of Meridian Qigong
www.geoloveheals.com
888-766-8711

September 14, 2004

Bravo Jinjee and Rhio!

I am very glad that you responded to Nazariah's interview!!! I kept thinking I should but was soo busy and then you two did a thorough and thoughtful job! I find your responses so soft, non-violent and objective and firm at the same time. I couldn't have done it better and I am totally joining you.

I also had an experience with Nazariah, last year at the Portland Raw Food Festival. He told people in his class that Igor and Sergei eat eggs and dairy, and that is why they look so great. Two ladies from Las Vegas came and asked my family about this and we strongly denied it. They wrote an email to Nazariah, but he continued to claim that we ate dairy. They forwarded his email to me, with questions. I confronted Nazariah twice with my letters, asking where did he get this idea and could he please stop spreading misinformation. He didn't apologize and didn't even respond to me. My family hasn't consumed animal food in the last 10 years. So from my experience, Nazariah is not very careful with his sources of information.

I met MANY people who stopped being raw after reading this interview. They told me that when they went back to cooked food, their health problems came back and they had to start all over. I am so sad to hear these stories. I personally put so much effort into supporting their original choice to sustain a raw diet, so I was quite disappointed. I shared with Frederic my thoughts about all this, and other raw fooders did too, and I am glad to see that he reduced his interview with Nazariah and made it less harsh.

I wish Nazariah and Frederic would be more thoughtful of the consequences of their claims. They need to research their claims before circulating them widely and breeding fear in people. When they make blatant false allegations it affects us all.

Lots of LOVE to you, Ladies!

Victoria
www.rawfamily.com

September 14, 2004

Hi Victoria and Rhio,

Bravo Victoria! Thank you for getting Fred to edit the Naz interview! I think that will help things a lot. I too had many people tell me they stopped being raw due to that interview. I had a client in Belgium, a young woman who I had been consulting for a year on the phone. She was very very drawn to a 100% raw vegan diet, but was fighting some very serious food addictions. She had finally kicked her last two - coca-cola and chocolate, and was finally able to digest food for the first time without pain. Even so she needed constant support to help her fight those doubts that always do creep in. And then after Naz' article she said she was going to go back to cooked foods. Unfortunately for her that didn't just mean adding an egg or two; within days she was eating bread again. I felt like I'd lost my dear little friend.

I'm not surprised to hear that Naz makes things up about people. Sorry it happened to you Victoria. He says that he's caught "many raw teachers eating cooked food". It seems like it would be quite a co-incidence to even catch one at it, but "many" seems awfully far-fetched. My original response to the interview was very angry and full on "busting" Naz, but I edited it for many days while I let my energy calm down!

Another thing I'm hearing is that many people have stopped going to the boards for support because so many people on the boards are talking about the need for animal products in the diet. What are these people doing on the raw-vegan boards anyway? I wonder if the cattle/dairy/medical industries are planting these people or if this is just a natural occurrence? One of my friends also asked me after reading the Naz interview "Who got to him?" meaning they thought he'd been bought off by corporate players.

I look forward to reading Rhio's article soon.

Love to you and your families!

Please visit us if you are ever near Los Angeles (we're in the mountains nearby).

Jinjee

September 13, 2004

Thank you for the wonderful info in the new newsletters!

Megan

September 15, 2004

Dear Jinjee, Rhio,

We in the raw movement should know what really went on with the Florida raw family. A raw friend of mine, Willa Cain, has visited the family and stayed with them in FL. The infant was born without a thymus and should have died within 2 weeks, but because of the nutrient dense foods, albeit the wrong ones - should have been fed breastmilk - the infant lived for several weeks longer anyway. Breastmilk would not have saved it since it had no thymus. Perhaps the mom gave wheatgrass in desperation to save its life.

All the other children were tested to be healthy, they were not emaciated as the press unfairly depicted. They were force fed SAD for a year in foster homes, and immediately began getting sick and emotionally unstable from sugar and pop, meat, dairy. The parents are open to talk to anyone who can help. They need to raise $3500 more for a defense to get their children back, raising $2000 so far.

Hopefully, you can both influence them directly so they do not make raw feeding mistakes. Willa says they are very nice. You can reach them by contacting Willa who has their phone no.

wc08@aol.com

Thank you for any help.

I like your comments on Naz's interview, and passed them around. I look forward to the pleasure of meeting both of you someday.

All the best,

Eric Rivkin
952 470 9726

September 15, 2004

Hi, Dave:

If you haven't seen the following or its predecessors I think you will find it of great interest.

You might also consider asking Naz, Frederic, Rhio and Jinjee (whose interspersed comments lend much additional value) for permission to reprint in whole or segments???

Also for consideration by the authors: Back in my early days as a cub reporter in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War, I interviewed a former Prime Minister renown for his wit, intelligence and outspokenness towards his enemies.

In a country so impoverished that a "hit man" could (and would) extinguish a life for a mere 200 baht ($10.00), I asked this gentleman if he did not fear for his life when he made such accusatory statements about his enemies.

On the contrary, he said something to the effect: "If I just alluded to someone without naming names it could cast aspersions on the innocent without impingement on the guilty. If something happened to me, there might be much speculation but no clear direction to the culprit. By naming names, I remove the threat, not increase it. That's why I've lived so long," he smiled.

Moreover, he pointed out, when one is not specific it reflects doubt on the speaker's integrity.

It was a good lesson for me as a reporter: Additionally, the person(s) in question has no ability to defend his/herself, as in the case with Rhio's cat, etc.;-)

Gerry

Gerry Coffey, Health Educator/Councilor/Public Relations Officer
THE VEGETARIAN UNION OF NORTH AMERICA and
THE INTERNATIONAL VEGETARIAN UNION

September 18, 2004

Hi Rhio,

I wrote this short article in response to the recent newsletter. Maybe its not appropriate, but I felt like articulating my ideas and wrote it anyway.

Cheers
Dermot

Why does it matter? The need to follow.

I have just read with great interest the recent Rhio Newsletter regarding the debate about raw veganism. And the overwhelming compulsion to ask why does it matter has engulfed me. Can a person not simply decide for themselves what they will eat and do for that matter, without having to consult with an “expert” or book or check that it is allowed within the system they are following. Is what Naz said that shocking? Nobody has before wondered why this magical diet has often failed to live up to expectations, claiming in the same way a cult claims that by adopting its structure or FOLLOWING its principles all problems will disappear and happiness of angelic proportions will be achieved. Anyone that’s been around the block has heard this so many times before in so many different variations that it is almost tragically amusing. From Scientology to Macrobiotics, same s*it different smell, and of course varying strengths of odour.

I became a vegetarian by the age of 15; by 16 I was a vegan (cooked). My rhetoric was powerful and convincing, most of my friends became vegetarians and some vegans. I read books and books about the diet, though my principal reason for becoming a vegan was ethics and not health I observed a very off putting phenomenon developing: authority. People would come up to me and ask me was it ok to eat this or that and what my response was to somebody who had said something against the diet etc etc. People were treating me like a dietary expert and I advised to the best of my ability. I was no expert and as this sheep mentality developed it became abhorrent to me; so I had to say "look I don't know, decide for yourselves." When I was 19 I quit being a vegan (not for health reasons) and people were very shocked, asking me why! Over the course of a couple of years without my influence I slowly saw most of the converts go back to a "normal" diet. Interesting. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, who knows.

Be it Macrobiotics, Raw, fruitarian, natural hygiene, whatever: there is two essential elements: the guidelines or rules and the following of those guidelines and rules. Now more than ever people need to understand that being a follower is perhaps the most spiritually destructive and physically useless role a human can take up. You cannot follow your way to freedom, enlightenment or happiness you have to make your own way. Navigating from your own head, your own heart and your own balls is the only way to get to YOUR destination.

As 2pac said "Godamn I'm a grown man, I follow no man, nigga got my own plan"

Strict adherence to any set of dietary or religious principles is indicative of fear: the fear of getting lost without this solid reference point. It in many ways is also tied up with the fear of death, of failing if one is to embark on their own journey.

I don’t mean to be obnoxious I’m only calling it as I see it and I have seen a lot of it, people detached from their own instinct, their own heart clinging onto ideologies and leaders for dear life.

So what does it matter what Naz says? It doesn't matter to me, it wouldn't even be an issue only that there are followers following and they haven't confronted a lot of the very obvious questions about the diet, as they were too busy following it.

Peace

Dermot

September 12, 2004

Rhio,

Hi Dear!

I, too, wrote an article commenting on the Nazariah interview. I think you'd enjoy reading it. It's very nuts 'n boltsy, dealing with physiology, logic, empirical evidence, and plain ole common sense. It's at http://health101.org/Nazariah.htm

Feel free to let your readers know about it... it has done a lot to calm some of the concerns generated by Fred's interview that were expressed to me (you can imagine living in the raw food "capital" of the nation - Atlanta - how I got inundated with concerns).

Love,

Don

September 15, 2004

HI Rio,

Thanks for the interesting article re Nazariah thoughts/theories.

I have been reading his theories for some time and would like to know a little more of his background. Who is he anyway and what makes him and his theories anymore valid than anyone else..he really doesn't back up anything he states with any "evidence". He says things like "stuff like that," and re the Fla., case I believed he stated he was told or heard something..

When he tries to discredit raw foodist by recounting his experience of seeing avowed 100%'ers eating cooked food it's almost laughable.. If I'm not mistaken this happened a number of yrs ago and he keeps harping about it.. Has he had any new sightings of alleged misdeeds?? Why can't he tell us who these people? Shouldn't we have the right to know so that we can question said individuals about the veracity of such sightings?? Oh, I get it I suppose thats' a noble thing!!

Did some research and seen that he states at the time that he was 46 and had been a vegetarian since he was 17.. Well, how do we not know that some of his problems stem from his many yrs of being a vegetarian??

I feel he has an agenda and/or a need to feed his ego which apparently can be done by believing that he has the "truth."

Thanks Rhio,
Brenda

PS: Rhio,

I forgot to ask.. Did Dr Walker eat rice that you know of??? I have read a lot by and about Dr Walker but never that he ate rice..find that hard to believe. He mentioned that he added raw dairy products back into his diet but I don't ever remember reading that he ate rice!!

Brenda

September 14, 2004

Thank you for this Rhio. You are brave to send it out. We all need to question our certitudes at times. I have definitely known some people on these kinds of diets who were convinced that they were getting healthier, while it was obvious to me that they weren't.

I think it is good for people to consume fewer animal products. However, it's counterproductive to lose all balance and become a fanatic.

The truth is not eternal - it is a moving target.

Andy Zimmerman

September 12, 2004

dear rhio,

i keep hoping to someday meet you!

anyway, 2 quick comments on the naz thing... (deleted as too personal for posting)

another thing that comes to my mind is that naz says that lots of raw food 'leaders' are ill. lots of raw food leaders (vast majority) are not 100% raw. their bodies are constantly on a detox/tox roller coaster, for one thing. some people do ok with this, but my opinion is that 100%, all the time, is most stable and loving for the body and the will.

i have only been 100% for a touch over 2.5 years, so i'm not able to personally comment on being 100% for many, many years. i also went raw/vegan very gradually (took about a decade to ease into it) and consistently, so that may be a factor. i do know that i am in excellent health and youthfulness.

best to you and i am looking forward to someday thanking you in person for how much your hooked on raw book helped me as i was learning about living foods!

Celeste Crimi
Beaverton OR (portland area)

September 15, 2004

Hello Rhio!

I don't know if you remember me, we met last summer at Jim Tibbett's raw food retreat in Ct. I spoke after dinner on Sat nite.

I just wanted to drop you a quick note of thanks for your news letter. I always enjoy the topics that you discuss, most particularly the current effort.

I had the pleasure of speaking at the world raw food conference in Portland a few years back. It was my first foray into the raw food world and I must say that I share many of the sentiments [put forth by Naz in your column.

That was the event where I first met Jim and i remember getting a rise out of him one morning at breakfast when he asked me what my impressions of the raw fod movement were. I told him "that the ego was alive and well here!~" :-)

I was looked down on out there because i was only 75% raw, but that has been for my entire life! And at this advanced age, I still have yet to have any maladies whatsoever, not a cold or the flu or even a headache. And i don't know what aches and pains are either.

It just might be that the 25% of my diet that comes from other sources may contain the remedies that are deficient in the totally raw diet.

At any rate, as someone who has had FLAWLESS health for his entire life, it would be impossible for anyone to tell me that what I have done with this precious body has been in error.

The mantra out there in POrtland, and in raw fodland in general is "you are what you eat!" I am in total accord with one of your contributors, and tried to impart to my audiences that we are so much more than that. Always the heretic I guess! :-)

For now then-

Imagine all the people living life in Peace! :-)

Ron

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